Author Topic: Peel replicas  (Read 6574 times)

richard

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Peel replicas
« on: August 27, 2014, 02:20:37 PM »
Well with another peel replica sold , and one still to go, I guess the forum will have to await more stories of what to do with the original Peel idea  ;)p
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Big Al

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 03:00:32 PM »
Or is a Peel replica only skin deep?
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Bondbugcrazy

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2014, 11:49:03 PM »
Regardless, it's a car and something very different.
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Big Al

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2014, 08:09:31 AM »
But so are many other things. Now lets not run into a Peel love/hate situation. I ask a more generalised question, as I simply do not understand.

Why is it that certain cars seem to become an object of desire to such a point that owners are quite happy to have non-originals, replicas, kitcar versions and even the wildly inaccurate facsimile of the original car. AC Cobra is the first car to spring to mind, but nearer to home both Messerschmitt and Peel continue to attract attention, as has Isetta. There are others, and clearly the fact that someone with skills enough to provide an easy route into creating these copies, has to be a major factor in the replica's existance.

In most cases the object reproduced is rare. So I can understand the attempt to make an accurate copy, though I would still find it fall short, as the real thing is out there to be bought, if you really want it. If the exercise was one to find out if it was worth buying a real one, I could understand that. But in most cases a few visits and a bit of research will tell if the entry price is worth the level of enjoyment on offer by a genuine example.
Messerschmitts are not rare, however. So that one is a mystory, unless its to buy into the concept. I do not, and never have, own a Mopetta, for instance. We would not get along despite it being superbly bonkers. Maybe it is here that I get lost as the argument could be that the level of enjoyment is the cost of having a copy, the genuine being to much money and trouble. My brain drives me to own real versions of things, though. To an extent I do not need to restore them. Owning and assembling what I have into an experience is enough to decide if the project to completion is worth it. So I can reel off a long list of rarities owned, but a much shorter one of running machinery used.
A case would be the Inter. I do not know how much Bob spent restoring it, its not really relevant. The difficulty was more in contacting the right people to enable it to be done correctly. I knew I was not going to get on with it. Bob had judged a need to take the car to the road in himself. A deal was done. The car got done, which is the important thing in the end. I imagine some people would find my part in that hard to understand. I collect a little, but have never really been a hoarder by nature. I admit to investing in certain cars as a pension, thats different. I admit to getting huge pleasure from finding unknown cars, whole or in bits, hedges or sheds. These I then attempt to make complete sets of parts. Otherwise its my task to redirect cars to a home where the car has a good chance to be put back to the road, or at the least be conserved. Nowhere do non original or copied cars fit in, save in the period when I was a trader, and even then it was very few. 

Another example as an illustration of where I am in this. The option was a mint shell along with most of the parts to create a Peel replica, or the ownership of a very original unmolested Bamby. For me that is a no brainer, Bamby wins. For others it would be the Peel kit as it was probably worth more, and represents a more desirable car despite it not being a real one. Over time I think the Bamby value will catch up with that of the copy Peel. For most folk that would not be important as they probably would not be looking at ownership of that length of time. The none deal was a surprise to those who knew about it, I think, as many think I am purely money motivated.

So I remain phased by the number and degree of deviation from original specification folk choose to include in their 'copy' cars. I remain unsure quite where I stand on them, too (No not on the roof). Some are spectacularly accurate copies which were more work then restoring an original. Others are, well, different.... Certainly I must be aware not to blank these cars, especially if I ever get involved in organising again, as despite many factors most remain microcars owned by grades of nutters wanting to enjoy themselves in a minority activity. 
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DaveMiller

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2014, 09:01:36 AM »
It is indeed a mystery, Al. But you hit on the answer, I think, in the final twenty words of that posting!

Bob Purton

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2014, 10:25:50 AM »
Just a comment on why I took on the restoration of your ex Inter where as you didn't relish the job Al.
At the time quite a large proportion of my business was with the French so even without the internet it wasn't so difficult to get joined up with some great French enthusiasts. Thinking back the level of help I got from them was extraordinary!
Re the whole question of replicas, I think I can understand both camps. Some people just love building things.  So long as they are not passed off as genuine cars I cant see the problem. Some of them, for example, Steve Fisks car is so far from orininal that this will never be a problem. He has enjoyed himself enormously on his project and also learned a lot, now he is expressing an interest in classic microcar ownership so for some, building a replica is a stepping stone.
Rather than shun these cars and there builders we should include them and a proportion of them will eventually see the light and graduate to what many of us see as real Microcars.

Grommet

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2014, 10:29:34 AM »
Al
Let me give you some insight into the mindset of one Peel replica builder.

In the early 1970s our family ran a frisky family three, but as we became a family of four, then five it had to go.

For the intervening years classic motorcycles and cars have always been around with a few moderns sneaking in on occasions.

The desire to own a microcar for fun motoring and shows has always been there but practicalities had never allowed this to be considered.

For example I would love to own a Frisky again but simply could not afford one.

I love the zany look of the Peel Trident and when the opportunity arose to borrow a body mould, building a close replica became a real possibility and most importantly within my financial reach. I would love to own an original but would never be able to afford even a total basket case.  Also even if I could afford one there are plenty of similarly expensive but practical classic cars and motorcycles that I would much rather have!

The all fiberglass body means that an accurate body replica is relatively simply produced …which is an excellent starting point.

I have had the Triumph power plant for many years in the form of a T10 automatic scooter and the remaining components are well within my fabrication comfort zone.  So a relatively simple build..
The total build cost will be in the region of £1800 and nearly half of this cost is for the replica dome.

My time for the build would of course increase this cost considerably, but its my time and therefore free!

So building a Peel replica is simply the only way I can ever consider owning one of the microcars that I desire!

The fact that it will be a replica also means it can be used, abused, modified etc. as I see fit without me having to worry about defacing/damaging a rare original car…

Grommit

Garybond

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2014, 11:43:53 AM »
That Grommet is a very good answer
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AndyL

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2014, 11:59:06 AM »
I rather like the replicas, and as has been pointed out, they allow owners to do what they wish with them without having to deflect criticism for molesting an original machine.

It would also be nice to see some newer designs alongside the old. I rather like the Scoot Coupe, which to my mark one eyeball looks very much like a more modern version of the BSA Ladybird, which was a wonderful looking little machine.

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Jim Janecek

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2014, 03:20:06 PM »

Messerschmitts are not rare, however. So that one is a mystory, unless its to buy into the concept.

I know someone who owns 2 real KR200s and a Tri-Tech Schmitt.  The KRs sit while he actually drives the Tri-Tech around.  For him, it is a more useable device with less maintenance and fuss.  He has no interest in passing it off as a "real" Messerschmitt.

Big Al

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2014, 04:08:45 PM »
I am not sure anyone has answered my question, though. I am not looking for an 'I support copied cars', or not, answer. I am looking for a reasoned one that makes sense to me. Having the best non original replica of a car is like having an perfect condition rare print Sherlock Holmes story with the wrong ending.

If you have two KR200 but prefer driving a Tri Tech, then you like the Tri Tech better, surely. Therefore the KR200 are liked less, unless you do not want to drive them for a valuation reason, of course. Be interesting to know if its a modified suspension car as I would fail to understand how anyone could find it better, but that is another story.
Interesting here is that I am tempted to make a modified Messerschmitt to bring in better technology to make it more drivable. So in this instance I am suggesting more regular usage as a pay off to altering what could be some rough bits that could be an original Messerschmitt. When you can sell a rebuilt Sachs KR200 engine for £3,500, as I have done, then this becomes even more appealing, as the replacement unit cost all of £450 with its engine frame. Schmitt parts are beyond the price where it is certain that cars will remain standard. Having proven enhanced cars about in use could spell trouble for this marque, as both cost and use count against originality.

Ownership, well that is down to how much you want to own something. Anything is affordable, if you really want it. Its the motivation to be successful. To settle for less is a compromise. We all make them all the time, if we only but admit it. 

Modifying the original design is rather the same situation as the KR200 and the Tri Tech.
So perhaps for instance; I am just wild about a Grober 400 but a Groberesque 750 with disc brakes would be so much better. Yes but its not a Grober anymore really, is it? In fact you wanted something else in all probability. Very often this turns out not to be a Microcar at all, like a Grober 750 wouldn't be. A fraying of the edge of an interest by starting with something looking like its in class. But also see comment above.

Building a T10 powered Peel for £1,800 in hardware is a good project. Is a real Frisky that much more? They seem to be available to buy. However I can see the general logic in the reasoning here, even if I think it might have been possible to gain a real, but differing car (budget might have been different for this, only Grommit can know that) for a little more. Is the lack of cheaper entry level Microcars coming in here?

I still do not see it, totally.
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AndyL

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2014, 06:57:36 PM »
I guess the reason is some people like aesthetic qualities of the car, but don't want the mechanical foibles of older machinery. Or perhaps they don't want the hassle of having to search around for old bits and bobs or have to restore something. Lets face it restoration is often like buying a kit car, with lots of parts missing and those you do have are often worn, dented or rusty. So you have to make them good before you go anywhere.

Best people to answer would be those that own them I guess.
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Peel replica, Steve Fisk

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2014, 10:43:07 PM »
I think we all have a screw loose in different ways and must be nuts , if it's building a car like me out of a reject mould , restoring something that was pulled out of a barn or even just keeping a classic up and running for others to see , it all takes serious effort, any one who takes on such a challenge gets top marks from me , answer to your question though , better to have a rare print of Sherlock Holmes story and make up your own ending rather than dream , for many people any way

Big Al

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Re: Peel replicas
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2014, 07:56:11 AM »
Good points.

Indeed time passes and finding spares is getting harder, as is budgeting for them. The process is the same if it were a kit car, say, but with some element of freedom to choose economic options. Remove a burning need for the original, the build is just as satisfying. Maybe the use is too.
I can quite see pleasure in having created something unique that works. This was where the Pod got to. Russell's need for the car had gone. He got it to work, proving his ability to those who mattered, and then dropped the project for something more interesting to him, a man most interested in solving engineering problems.

Budget, am I that lucky in being happily single that I can create the extra spending power to buy original cars? Certainly my experience has been two do not live as cheaply as one, for one partner. The deal is bad, too, as you get prevented form doing as you want, which is called 'being selfish', to do pointless missions to visit shops, not to buy anything, or visit people you don't really like to then stab in the back on the way home. All with added whinging. Not a good deal in my book. Maybe I have been unlucky. But at least I own what I have without the threat of it being nicked via legal process and a sob story. A reason to not have huge visible assets on its own. Here have half a fake! I like it.
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